Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律

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原文:http://thediplomat.com/2016/04/china-abducts-taiwanese-in-kenya/ 有些敘述比較不重要的我就刪了,像前面是在說明事情經過。 Kenya’s Interior Ministry maintains that the Taiwanese nationals entered Kenya illegally and were to be extradited to China because this was the route they had taken to enter the country. Taipei has called the act “a gross violation of basic human rights.” Taiwan’s Foreign Ministry has reached out to Kenyan parliamentarians and rights activists to provide assistance in filing a lawsuit against Kenyan police. 肯亞目前的說詞是他們是非法入境所以送回出發地(國)。 At this point, it is difficult not to regard the move as a case of abduction of foreign nationals by China with Kenyan complicity. While Beijing and Nairobi began talks on an extradition treaty in August 2015, an extradition treaty normally facilitates the return of a national to his or her country of origin to face prosecution. The problem, of course, is that Taiwanese are holders of a Republic of China (ROC) passport, not one from the People’s Republic of China (PRC). 中國跟肯亞從2015開始談引渡條款,引渡條款通常是指將該人遣送回國籍國,問題出在 台灣人是拿「中華民國」護照,不是中國的「中華人民共和國」護照 Beijing could have wiggled out of this one by pointing to the precedent set by the U.S. in its efforts to combat international cyber crime, under the premise that the activities of the alleged criminals were detrimental to China ’s security. One case, for example, involved the deportation in 2007 of 23-year-old Ovidiu-Ionut Nicola-Roman, a Romanian citizen, to the United States under a Mutual Legal Assistance Protocol and extradition treaty between the United States and Romania. Several other Romanian nationals involved in the scheme were expected to be sent to the United States to face prosecution. Ukrainian and Estonian nationals have also been extradited to the United States under similar agreements. “Criminals who exploit the power and convenience of the Internet do not recognize national borders; therefore our efforts to prevent their attacks cannot end at our borders either,” Deputy Attorney General Mark R. Filip said at the time. But China’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs didn’t refer to the U.S. precedent or cross-strait agreements, and instead lauded Kenya’s decision, implying that the extradition was the result of Nairobi’s adherence to the “one China ” policy. In other words, Beijing would rather be accused of abduction and extraterritoriality — and would rather risk alienating the Taiwanese — than to refer to a practical and arguably sensible precedent, set by the United States, that would imply that Taiwanese are not Chinese citizens subject to PRC laws. 這邊講說北京大可以走法律解釋,引用美國過去對網路犯罪的發言與實例,指出犯罪對象 的行為影響到中國國家安全。(同時引用2007美國引渡羅馬尼亞公民去美國的案例) 不過中國卻用政治化的語言說這是肯亞遵守「一個中國」政策所作的決定。 這裡也就解讀成北京不惜放棄站得住腳的法律解釋(也是法務部一些人目前用來幫中國or 自己開脫的理由),改用會讓台灣人反感的政治語言下去操作。 Due to the complicity of various regimes that have developed close ties with Beijing over the years, this latest incident also suggests that Taiwanese “ criminals” — a category that, under the PRC’s National Security Law, which supposedly extends to Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan, could include “splittism ” and other loosely defined threats to national security — no longer have assurances of due process when they travel abroad. 最後這段是全文重點,必須要小心翻譯: 有鑑於部份政權近年來與中國越走越近,這個事件顯示台灣的「罪犯」,在中國自認適用 於港澳台的國家安全法下,像是「分裂主義」或是其他較寬鬆認定危害中國國家安全的嫌 疑時,不在享有過去「正常法律程序」下的法律保障。 整段的意思是: 中國已經收買很多國家的政府啦,加上他們國內法又隨便他們認定隨便他們判(人治),台 港澳人士以後去這些舔共國家不能再以為會被合理的法律對待。 結論就是中國的法治邏輯成功輸出到一堆舔共國家去了,自己小心。 -- 從心之所行,即是正道。 --
※ 發信站: 批踢踢實業坊(ptt.cc), 來自: 140.112.208.47 ※ 文章網址: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/Gossiping/M.1460621222.A.61E.html
1F j23932: 中國真的很愚蠢,明裡暗裡吃豆腐,把台灣人搞到很不爽,統戰 04/14 16:09
2F foolfighter: 如果是肯亞是主張遣返,那背後就一個中國的護照問題 04/14 16:09
3F j23932: 做得有夠失敗 04/14 16:09
中國看到DPP就著猴也不是第一天了
4F umi74: 這代表放棄和平統一 04/14 16:11
5F beyonder: 傻傻的,中國哪是要統戰,他是要台灣社會分裂,吵鬧 04/14 16:11
6F beyonder: 等你們吵成一團,又弱化民進黨,他又可以趁機而入 04/14 16:11
7F foolfighter: 沒辦法,扯後腿的太多了 04/14 16:11
8F beyonder: 結果一堆人在講程序正義,賣力演出,中共屎尿未及 04/14 16:12
9F beyonder: 隨便問人,根本沒人真心要這些詐欺疑犯回台灣,除了政客 04/14 16:13
10F funnily: 推一下原PO的謹慎翻譯 但我覺得後續問題和原原PO大致類似 04/14 16:59
11F funnily: 尤其不只罪犯 只要是言論不合中國意的台灣人都有可能遇到 04/14 17:02
其實原原Po想講得我知道只是在敘述的部份跳太快變成是在講結論,有些翻譯會比較不習 慣看到人家這樣翻@@ 畢竟整段是從第三者角度去敘述說明跟評論,有時全文重點跟脈絡這樣去翻會有點失焦 這整篇其實是在說強國崛起之後透過$$外交去施壓一些政府配合強國的玩法玩 ※ 編輯: faratia (140.112.208.47), 04/14/2016 17:20:16
12F yp0331: 這篇翻得比較好。 04/14 17:38
13F isalin: 推 04/14 18:30
14F isalin: 把台灣人惹毛 有幾個可能 1.內鬥習 放大對台政策失敗 04/14 18:32
15F isalin: 2.激起台灣人不滿 挑高對立 激起中國民族主義 對內團結 04/14 18:34
16F isalin: 3.因蔡低調處理兩岸 故意挑起事端 示威並施壓 04/14 18:34
17F rayba: 只會是2 然後台灣人年輕人殺光老人之後來個文革2喜迎皇師 04/14 20:57
18F KIWAMI: 這比較向支那放棄用收買民心的方式,用實力造成既成事實直 04/15 02:20
19F KIWAMI: 接框住你,讓你就算嘴巴說非支那實際也變成支那一省. 04/15 02:22

完整討論串

留言數 標題 作者 日期
645 [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 namtar 2016/04/14 14:51:44
167 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 frogha1 2016/04/14 15:18:37
16 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 pierreqq 2016/04/14 15:21:53
27 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 superlighter 2016/04/14 15:34:08
14 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 wielain 2016/04/14 15:35:45
62 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 AstrayKnight 2016/04/14 15:37:31
19 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 frogha1 2016/04/14 15:57:23
19 >> Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 faratia 2016/04/14 16:06:59
8 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 AstrayKnight 2016/04/14 16:15:21
10 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 direct 2016/04/14 17:11:44
22 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 sai007788 2016/04/14 18:50:26
11 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 areses 2016/04/14 19:57:45
9 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 eszerfrm 2016/04/14 22:49:07
4 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 bced 2016/04/14 23:19:45
14 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 weus 2016/04/15 02:08:37
3 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 kuopohung 2016/04/15 02:25:03
28 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 cgi0911 2016/04/15 02:56:54
17 Re: [爆卦] 國際上認為肯亞案代表台灣適用中國法律 namtar 2016/04/15 11:31:04

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